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Rumour: GEOS Late in Paying Salaries

Novawhiz noticed an update to the GEOS Wikipedia page that was quickly removed:

Recent economic woes have lead Geos to be late paying the Japanese staff in August and September 2009. It is further reported that foreign teachers working at the adult schools were not paid on time in October 2009. Geos is currently asking clients to pay as much as 5 months in advance for the following year's lessons in a bid to raise the necessary funds to meet payroll obligations. This financial distress has led to many Japanese staff members to resign.

The edit in question can be found here.

There may be some truth to this. A thread in a kuchikomi message board wonders the same thing: were the staff late in getting paid? In response to the question, the first post was:

2009/09/22 19:21

はい!!!

そのとうりです!毎月月末のスタッフのお給料がでませんでした。
本部から自宅に電話があり、お金がないので今海外校に送金手続きをしてもらっているから1週間待ってくださいと・・・。
スタッフに払う金がない????
ありえない・・・。
すぐに上司にやめたいと言いました。
却下・・・・。
周りのMGは妊娠した、入院する、母ががん。。。とうそをついて辞めようと必死です。
今月でるのでしょうか・・・。お給料。
NOVAの次とは聞いてますが、いよいよ破産近し・・・・です。

Yes!!!!
Head office called me at home to say that they had no money and to wait a week until they can process wire transfers from overs schools.
They don't have any cash to pay staff????
That's unbelievable.
I immediately told my boss that I wanted to quit.
Got rejected...
Other managers I know are scrambling to quit, saying they're pregnant, have to be hospitalized, or their mother has cancer.
I wonder if we'll be paid this month?
I've heard GEOS would be next after NOVA. Looks like it's ready to go under.

Another commented:

2009/09/30 21:44

9/30日本日もお給料入っていませんでした!!!!!
2回目です。NOVAは4回目の社員お給料遅延で破綻。
いったいどうなるんでしょうか。
2ヶ月もお給料遅れるなんてまずいですね。

2009/09/30 21:44

It's 9/30 and I haven't been paid !!!!
This is the second time. NOVA went bust after pay was late for the 4th time.
What the hell is going on?
Getting paid late for 2 months running is not good.

Another poster says pay was late for instructors, too:

2009/09/30 22:31

今回は講師も遅れましたね。

今回はシステムエラーなのかミスなのか
、まあどっちでもいいですが、2カ月続いての事なので
「ホントかよ!?」って感じです。

2009/09/30 22:31

It happened to the instructors, too.

Whether it was a system error or a mistake, it's happened 2 months in a row. What's up with that?!

Another comment about a "system error:"

2009/09/30 23:26

今日も給料入ってませんでした。本部のシステムエラーだとメールがきていましたが、それが本当のことならあってはいけないミスですよね。かえって売り上げが悪く支払いが遅れますと言ってくれた方がましです。こんなことだからCSの案内するのに気が引けるっつうの。

2009/09/30 23:26

I haven't been paid this month. I got an email from head office saying that it was a system error, but if that's true, it's an inexcusable mistake. I'd rather hear from someone that sales are down and salaries will be late. I'm not up to doing CS [Commission sales] because of this.

Another commenter adds that they finally got paid:

2009/10/05 23:37

9月は1日遅れで入りました!
システムエラーだそうです。
先生が辞める!!!と言い出したのでなだめるのに大変でした><!!

2009/10/05 23:37

September's pay was a day late but I got it!
Apparently it was a system error.
Teachers have started saying that they'll quit and I've had a tough time trying to smooth things over!!

Finally, a student chimed in to say:

2009/09/26 19:20

私は、ジオスに通っている生徒です。
契約更新をするかしないか・・・迷っています。

>更新時に「ジオスはつぶれませんよね」
>と言われて「今のところ大丈夫ですよ」としか
>言えませんでした。

私も、同じ質問をしたところ、
「分からないですからね。」と言われ、
半年契約(?)を勧められました。

先生は凄くいい人で、続けたい気持ちはあるのですが、
NOVAのようにお金だけ払って続けられなくなったらと思うと
怖いです。

年内にも経営破たんをしてしまうのでしょうか。

※ジオスのHPで経営状況を確認したかったのですが、
【売上高:164億円('06.12月期)】
となっており、通常'08(2009年更新)の売上高が
記載されるべきなのに、過去のものが記載されており、
確認ができませんでした。

2009/09/26 19:20

I'm currently a student at GEOS. I'm thinking about renewing but am having second thoughts

>They ask during renewals, "GEOS isn't going to go bankrupt, right?," but all I could say was," Right now everything is fine."

When I asked the same question, they told me they didn't know and tried to sell me a 6-month contract (?).

The teachers are really good people and I want to continue, but I'm scared to think that things might end up like NOVA where you pay and are then unable to take lessons.

I wonder if they'll go bankrupt by the end of the year?

*I looked up GEOS's finances on their website and found their sales were 16.4 billion yen (for the period ending Dec. '06) but couldn't find any new numbers even though sales figures for FY'08 should be up there.

These are anonymous comments and I have no way of knowing how much truth there is to what's been said. If the "system error" explanation sounds familiar, it's because NOVA used the same excuse to explain why it had not paid their staff.

Can anybody flesh this out some more? Has pay been late for the past two months? Is this just a one-off event or a sign of more serious trouble to come?

This is how the end came for NOVA. First it was the staff, and then it was the instructors not getting paid. If the rumour is true and the staff has been late in getting paid, it's time to start thinking about Plan B. You don't want to repeat the fisaco of ex-NOVA instructors getting re-hired. The moment you don't get paid, get the hell out as fast as you can. You certainly don't want to end up teaching in a park for food.

UPDATE 02/21: Comments are closed for this post. Continue the discussion here.

Japan: 

Comments

Good blog post.

Very informative.

Thanks.

I doubt we really have to comment much, everyone just go back and read through the entire End of Nova Thread on the boards.
If you can get through reading the whole thing between your pay day, and the date you actually get paid, it's time to EJECT EJECT EJECT!!!

Not only could this be the beginning of the end, it could be the cause of the end, too, as anyone from NOVA can tell you; if your company doesn't pay you, it's a very, very bad sign that it's in deep trouble; if you don't pay the workers, then some quit , which causes schedule problems, which causes students demanding refunds, which leads to less income to pay the bills...

you get the picture.

It becomes this disaster that feeds off of itself.

From my NOVA experience, which practically made me a pera legal, I suggest that GEOS employees get aquainted with their loca labor office, and find out what their rights are, and don't quit yet; if you quit now, you'll have to wait three months before you can collect unemployment. If GEOS goes belly up, you can get it much more quickly. Just keep calling in sick if they don't pay you.

CS=cock sucking

That is so true! Just call in sick. In the long run you will get paid for it! Companies that are tanking don't keep attendance records!Just use the time wisely. Build up your private base. Cut costs. Start soliciting students on days you do go in.

Act Now! Not later!
Organisenow!

アハハハハハハハハハ!!!!This is WAAAY to funny to be true!!!!!

Systems error??? Could it be??? If you believe for one second that this is a system error, then you are a hopeless case and should commit seppuku right away, as your life is a complete waste of oxygen.

If you were stupid enough to stick with NOVA through the 2007 debacle and transferred the NEO-NOVA, then this is exactly what you deserve for being such a moronic, docile, punk-ass, pussy, Japanese wannabe, corporate bitch. And I must add that I and a thousand other people TOLD YOU SO!!!

I can’t wait to hear all the heartfelt testimonials of dipshits working for the next few months without pay, being evicted and teaching for food, because of their love for their students, duty to teach shitty English lessons and fear of returning home and having to find a REAL job. It does not get any better than this.

-Luke

Shawn wrote a comment from a staff member who asked to quit but her request was rejected.

WTH- surely it can't be impossible to quit!
I feel sorry for her, but how stupid do you have to be to believe your boss when s/he says that you can't quit!

That is Japanese culture for you. You have to ask to quit and are usually not allowed to until it is convenient for the company. If the company stops paying out salaries, you are expected to gambaru until your office doors are locked by building landlord. Dedication to family, country or religion come after one's commitment to their sacred company, regardless of how shitty it is.

Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
And another one gone, and another one gone
Another one bites the dust
Hey, Im gonna get you too
Another one bites the dust

THORN

WTH- surely it can't be impossible to quit!

Not impossible but difficult when your boss bullies you into staying, especially if you happen to work at a school where it's just you (the manager) and one teacher.

In the 20th post dated 2009/10/02 21:11 of the thread I cited, an ex-manager recalls how she (?) was adamant in quitting on a fixed date no matter what. GEOS's response was to insult her, yell at her, and badger her into staying. Stay classy, GEOS.

Shawn
Let's Japan.org::Blog

CS - commission sales.

no advertisements as of late. things must be tough. so many other teachers doing private lessons and NOW private group lessons! Easy to find public space to accommodate classes. GEOS has not diversified. Always playing catch up. Considering NOVA's success as NeoNOVA, it is doubtful GEOS will find a buyer to salvage its remains...

This is all starting to happen as the bitchy daughter of the president is back and has nothing better to do than to screw up everything... Sorry for the great staff this company has, but with such management and rutten people at the management level now, things will go worst..

I work at GEOS....my school has lost over 50% of the sudents in the past 6 months. Badgering students to renew their contracts 6 months in advance, has really got alot of them nervous...alot of students have expressed concern over GEOS. I can understand why...with the out-of-date text books (most of them designed and printed in the 1990s) they use, and the high pressure and threats coming from the regional office to get students to renew or buy out-dated GEOS language products at full prices.

Of course the poor morale the managers have is making a MAJOR impact on students as well, as the atmosphere at my school is dismal and depressing....my manager refuses to organize parties or other events...refuses to to do managerial duties and constantly states `I want to be fired....Im lazy...and I dont care`, so as this manager can draw unemployment and othe benefits...well, at the rate this manager is going...it should happen soon. Not to mention that the JET teacher at my school is a confirmed racist and bigot and that does not help the atmosphere either.

Students at my school are canceling contracts and refusing to renew.....students are leaving in droves....I cant blame them. Get the Fxck out students....you are being screwed!!!!!

I already have an escape plan to leave GEOS...planned a while back.

So, Good Riddance GEOS, because you dont deserve to be in business.

There you have it people, from a person, live, in the coal face of GEOS, yet another yakusa style conmerchant eikaiwa outfit.

As one wise person once put, E + G = L.

Really, the post speaks volumes people, volumes.

Plan your escapes, or suffer the same fate Saruhashi imposed on thousands.

THORN

That thread from the Geos Japanese staff and students sounds interesting. Might be worth translating and posting up here, as a warning (and possibly testament) to Geos and eikaiwa in general.

The Ripper.

the part about not advertising is interesting. when nova failed we had a look at my wifes NHK radio course books. there were nova ads every month until the pay started being late, at which point they stopped appearing...

NOVA didn't stop advertising because of money, they stopped because they were ordered to by the government because of false advertising.

Your logic is flawed, they may have been ordered to stop advertising but they sure as shit didn't have the money to do it from August 2007 onwards anyway. Unless they had turned the Japanese managers into mobile billboards as they seem to do ok when not being paid.

I don't recall METI explicitly ordering that. NOVA had to suspend the sale contracts longer than 1 year or 70 hours. They were told to make their ads clearer, but they weren't forced to stop. Nova ran out of money for everything once the contract cancellations came pouring in.

Shawn
Let's Japan.org::Blog

It really is time for a concerted effort to be made, to have the Japanese government thoroughly regulate the eikaiwa industry, unless they like having Japanese tax payers money wasted.

The JET program is designed to promote Japan abroad, as much as it is to educate Japanese youth.

The contradiction of having Eikaiwa constantly leaving young foreign nationals with the taste of rotten sushi in their mouths is astounding.

“What the Japanese Tax Payer Giveth, Eikaiwa Taketh away”.

What Eikaiwa really is (con-merchant fly-by-nighter scam artists, with fundamentally flawed, designed to pop business models) is now common knowledge.

The Japanese Government must step in once and for all, and introduce some proper standards, or it can continue wasting Japanese Tax Payer’s Yen walking on a treadmill.

I know quite a number of people, who having tasted the putrefied Eikaiwa fruit, who shy away from pretty much anything Japanese, and those numbers will continue to swell, the longer the Japanese Government sits back, and lets this Eikaiwa farce continue relatively unrestrained.

GEOS is fine, Nova was a fluke. The eikaiwa industry is solid.

Always has been.

Why have you not commented on this GEOS debacle?
Please share your wisdom.

-Luke

GEOS?

My words of wisdom are simple.

Any business that models itself on eternal expansion of sales in a large market which has significant but finite demand for goods/services will initially:

(a) enjoy explosive profits, as sales for future delivery of goods/services dramatically exceed immediate deliveries of goods/services (incoming monies for future delivery of goods and services at that point, by far exceed the operating costs of deliveries of immediate goods/services)

THEN

(b) suffer a flat lining and reduction of profitability, as market reaches saturation point, and the line between future deliveries and immediate deliveries gets closer. Operating costs start to have significant bite, because profits are not being as heavily bolstered by sales of future goods/services which are not actually immediately delivered (noting the company only feels the “cost” of providing their goods/services when the good/services are actually delivered – ie when you actually teach). At this point, they try to re-widen that scary line which is rapidly coming closer together by creating a second wave of sales of future delivery of goods/services, by trying to diversify – kid’s lessons, old people’s lessons). Also at this point, because lack of future sales mean they have no money to keep opening schools, it becomes harder and harder to book a lesson, creating the false impression all is well and demand is strong.

THEN

(c) Finally, regardless of diversification, with market again reaching saturation point, and out of ideas as to how to go about flogging the same horse dressed as something else, they go bankrupt, when the line between future deliveries of goods/services and actual delivery of goods and services gets close to coming together, since without the sales of future goods/services, operating costs exceed operating bank balance.

No, GEOS can’t fit into the above. Surely, after flogging kids lessons for a year or two, they are not trying to sell like there is no tomorrow lessons for the future, are they? No, surely not……

Smart operators money launder and point (a) above, stashing cash outside the reaches of the company or receivers (by buying at highly inflated prices goods and services from unrelated but nonetheless sister companies which they unofficially control) and then pretend it was circumstances they had not control over, when the main company, and it’s model, which logically had to explode from day one, actually does explode.

So, in summary, Eikaiwa is a SCAM

J,J,J, Johnnie THE FIST

GEOS may have made her feel that they would take steps against her: go after her visa, blacklist her with future employers, etc.

If GEOS goes under there will be another saturation of foreigners lingering on in Japan looking for fewer and fewer so-called jobs. Certainly everyone will suffer again, just as when NOVA went down.

the Japanese seems to consider studying English a form of entertainment. Like paying money to talk to a foreign chick in a snack.

Exactly what happened to NOVA is happening to GEOS, and yes, it will be another wave of foreigners out of jobs.

The good news is that the market of scam artists that bulk sell languages packages cash up front at highly inflated prices (eikaiwa) is the only market that is saturated.

Scam wary / post Nova and financial crisis impacted customers, however, still want to practice English, and that is why, small private operators, with smaller over-heads, who don’t want huge monies up front, and have no need for huge monies up front, are doing well.

They just want to make a living, and don’t want to money launder millions of dollars away in the initial phases, so for them, going about make a simple living by providing a simple service is a lot less complicated.

Sadly, however, kids straight out of University and fresh to Japan struggle to set up such simple operations (takes a little time to get your sea legs in Japan). It is sad for them, because they won’t get to live in and see Japan for 6 months to a year, working for an Eikaiwa circus, but there is always the JET program (unless of course, the despatch scammers finally sink that as well).

Oh well.

You have to hand it to the Japanese. They really have made an elaborate and complex industry (unfortunately designed to fleece pockets and eventually pop) out of what is entirely simple. The legitimate demand is simply Japanese people wanting to practice conversation with a foreigner, but unfortunately, that demand gets met in a sinister, corrupt, illegal and illegitimate fashion, by Japanese scammers running Eikaiwa operations.

Like I said. Oh well.

J,J,J,Johnnie THE FIST

You are correct. The demand is a bit hairy and questionable, but it is a simple demand to meet, "clients" simply wanting a curious play thing, or seriously wanting to practice English with a native English speaker.

Adious

J,J,J Johnnie THE FIST

and Grist for the Eikaiwa mill will come from the demise of GEOS.

Someone here said something to the effect that the dispatch corporations may sink the JET program as well. I agree, that is already happening. JET is shrinking steadily, not that I care...

I am perplexed about how the Japanese really view these trends. There have been some very insightful comments posted, but how do the Japanese feel about all this!? I can't imagine the people at MEXT are completely unaware. They and other government officials supervising education must have some opinion.

They don't want our input at any level, but what are they suggesting occur? What is their ideal situation?

Yes, everybody is right. GEOS is looking at taking a massive fall and taking everyone conected to it down with them.
I work for GEOS and a mid-level gaijin manager recently resigned this month with short notice, left with a BS excuse. Anybody with half a brain could read through the lines of this managers resignation, that the company was headed for the toilet. This manager had been around for almost 10 years. I wonder if delayed salary, constant threats and pressure, and possibly privy to financal records that finally pushed this manager over the edge and left for good. A GREAT gaijin manager. This managers resignation definitely caught the company and native teachers by complete surprise and with NO replacement in sight, has left a gaping hole in the management structure and has everyone wondering**WTF!!???**
Lets face it, this company is finished. Those of you teachers that are still sticking around, you best have a exit strategy. You have seen the daily CS targets and goals for your schools..there is NO FXCKING way you and the staff can reach those CS goals!! Who the fxck in this company is making these ridiculous targets???!!! The company is drowning with more bills than money to pay for them and the guy at the top has no idea what to do about it. Approaching the students 6 months before their contract expires shows severe desperation and students have picked up on that. Im constantly being bombarded by students if GEOS will go bankrupt. This being counseling month, happens twice a year, gives the teacher and manager an oppurtunity to sale (out-dated) books and renew (over-priced) contracts to (brainless) students. The major problem is, the manager has already approached these students long before counseling to renew and we have very students left to renew, in fact most students have choosen NOT to renew, because the fear of a bankruptcy or other concerns. Our student base has shrunk dramatically this year at my school. My school makes very little money and gets on average 1 or 2 new students a month. Not enough to pay the bills in my school. When I talk to the school manager about all the problems and what does it all mean??? The manager always denies knowing anything and constantly lies, but I can tell by the look on the managers face...the stress, desperation, fear, tension, anxiety and almost constant diarrhea that there are serious problems in the company.

School managers quitting with little or no notice, delayed salaries, and with our mid-level manager leaving in a hurry....are these the very beginning signs of a corporate melt down??

All you other GEOS teachers need to get your ass on this forum and let everybody know what the fxck is going on in your school.

Anyone heard that AEON is paying staff late too? My wife’s friend claimed that she heard that many staff have not been paid for last month yet, and that the company is saying it is due to computer systems errors.

Any information would be appreciated. Seems like the whole system is in melt down.

Barry

Ha ha, I can't wait to see Nova offering "so your school went bankrupt" discounts for former GEOS students.

In all seriousness though, I hope this isn't true for the sake of all the teachers out there. Big bankruptcies are turning into a bad joke.

Y'all be trippin'. Teh Japanese will always have a desire to learn Engrish. And the big brands will cater to that. I predict NO financial problems with GEOS, despite its crappiness as a company overall.

"I predict no financial problems at geos..."
If a doctor says you have a cancer and another one that you have not, will you believe the first one? No, because you want live...
Same here ...because I guess that you are afraid of truth.
Good luck anyway.

Im working for GEOS and I worked at old NOVA when it went under. Im seeing the almost exact same pattern between GEOS and old NOVA. Late salaries is a major indication of serious problems and I saw it before. Its a very worrying turn of events.

I do want to share with the readers out there who have little or no knowledge to whats goi ng on in GEOS, let me share with you all some basic information of current events in a small school in the middle of no-where.

At GEOS it was routine for the schools to receive emails from the head office threatening everybody , teachers and j-staff that, THERE IS NO MORE MONEY! MEET THE CS TARGETS OR YOU WILL NOT BE PAID!! Not to mention the nasty, threatening, hate filled video rants by the CEO which was a tri-annual event, in which EVERYBODY had to watch and sign a form stating that said employee watched a pompous, racist bully make himself look like an assclown, all the while trying to imtimidate and scare teachers and staff alike. Those videos certianly brought down morale and angered everybody.

I have noticed these threatening emails and video rants have ceased lately, the corprorate office possibly trying not to pour fuel on the fire, as there are defections left and right these days. I think the next couple of months will be the quiet before the storm. I know GEOS is trying to survive until next years spring sign-up campaign, but its going to be really hard to do it. Big changes are coming and there are not good for anybody. My school has been suffering from student depaures for the past 10 months, the hemorrahaging has been getting worse and worse. The school cannot come up with enough money to pay our monthly obligations. With the bad economy raging on and GEOS inability to change with the times has doomed this company and everyone connected to it.

So, you other GEOS employees take a word from someone who has been through this before two years ago, be prepared, save your money, and be looking for a way out now or be ready to jump ship when the shit hits the fan. Good Luck to ALL of you.

"...mails from the head office threatening everybody..."

"...hate filled video rants by the CEO which was a tri-annual event..."

Man! Get some of this great content and put in on the boards here and/or YOUTUBE. Let the world know how much of a dick this guy is....

So, if we're going down the Nova route, let's get some solid pre-emptive information up here on the thread. For example, in recent weeks the long-time General manager and the long-time DOS at GEOS, Sydney have both jumped ship.

Your wife's friend, huh?

We're doing fine, everyone has been paid in full on time, just like the last five years. Thanks for your concern.

what is true and what is RANDOM,ill informed scare mongering ??

We're doing fine, everyone has been paid in full on time, just like the last five years. Thanks for your concern.

I distinctly recall several NOVA colleagues also burying their heads in the sand about 2 years ago. Yeah, GEOS is too big to go down, management knows what they are doing. Nothing to see here. Just some minor glitches in depositing the money on time.

You have about a month to get out, brother, before the GEOS teachers will be in the parks of Japan teaching for oni-giri and chu-hi. All the best, Dan.

Barry works for AEON, not GEOS

Comments such as "everything is fine at Geos", if not from trolls, are from "company people" who totally convince themselves that there's no problems at Geos, and believe the management when they say that the late payments to Japanese staff are just a computer glitch, and everything will be fine next month.

These people are literally scared to death of the idea of not having a job at GEOS, Nova or wherever. Kind of like a cult, they insulate themselves from reality by clinging onto all the company propaganda and the directives from management, to protect themselves from the horrifying thought that they wouldn't be able to survive in the "outside world".

Things clearly aren't fine at GEOS. Besides late payments, schools have been closing and student numbers are way down. I suspect that this is causing more and more panic amongst the management and this is spreading to the branches as management try to come up with excuses for everything, rather than being straight with staff.

All this mirrors the Nova meltdown. As stated above, start looking for other work NOW.

I have always loved this quote,particularly as it pertains to the usual suspects of loud bigmouths on here.
It goes along the lines of:"Those who know,aren't talking and those who are talking don't know."

I have always loved this quote,particularly as it pertains to the usual suspects of loud bigmouths on here.
It goes along the lines of:"Those who know,aren't talking and those who are talking don't know."

....and those who don't start looking for other work now will be rueing their decision if they don't heed the warning signs of the imminent collapse of their employer.

I haven’t heard anything about AEON not paying staff, so I think that is probably just jump on the bandwagon rumour mongering, but I have noticed its’ company structure could be deemed as being quite questionable by some inquisitive minds. The structure does appear to be very oddly typical of Eikaiwa businesses. For example, it is apparent that they not only just set up a division to run their computers, but instead, they set up an entirely separate company to run and manage them (same it would appear for quite a deal of services provided to the parent company). I wonder what prices those companies charge the AEON parent company for their services, and whether or not their charges are competitive or highly inflated, or variable (according to the books of the parent company at any given point of time)? I am not saying any fishy business is going on, but you all know what has been alleged about Nova, and why they set themselves up in what could be viewed as being a similar fashion.

I haven’t heard anything about AEON not paying staff, so I think that is probably just jump on the bandwagon rumour mongering,

Sorry, Mrs Volcano. It is more than just rumor mongering - unless you think the Japanese staff are lying on their blogs about not being paid? Shawn is usually a level head when it comes to "rumors" of Eikaiwa's demise - and he seems to think there is some real substance here.

C'mon, this company is in deep poop - and failure of GEOS' teachers to GET OUT NOW is absolute madness.

Anyone want to make any bets as to the date GEOS will be kaput? Mine is November 16th...

The madness would be quitting, as we saw with NOVA, and missing out on the unemployment benefit for 3 months.
It's pretty worrying for GEOS and most Eikaiwa/dispatch companies at moment.

I do not know any the details about Geos, but as other posters said, when a company does not pay its staff, it is serious.

For a company like Geos with long-term contracts that depend on consumer trust, it is particularly bad. With things like this, you get nervous customers who start backing out when the company needs them most. Kind of like a bank run. Even if the initial problem was surmountable, something like this can easily turn it into a meltdown..

am i missing something here?

mrs. volcano is talking about AEON not GEOS. the rumors are about GEOS not paying staff not AEON. they are not the same company! someone made a claim in this thread about AEON also not paying staff to which mrs. volcano was replying, which is completely baseless unless you have some new information.

There's people talking about Aeon and Geos on here. The Geos late-payment "rumours" seem to have a lot more substance to them. Remember this is the time of year when the number of students usually declines until it picks up again come the new tax and academic year in April. If companies are already having problems with cash-flow, then that's even more cause for concern.

GEOS has been operating day to day for at least the last 10-15 years. I worked at a Tokyo school in the mid-90's and there were constant cash crunches. One day all Kanto region managers were told to drop everything immediately and go to the HQ (then in Osaki) and deliver 500,000 yen each. Crisis adverted for that day. I also worked in one of the North American schools and things were worse. It was a common understanding that few of the overseas schools were profitable. The only ones that were and had anything resembling a coherent curriculum and professional atmosphere were those that GEOS acquired.

GEOS has been operating day to day for at least the last 10-15 years

That may be so but the present situation has the added dimension of the economic recession, with student numbers way down, and also corporate classes being cut back.

And as said earlier, if it's true that Japanese staff have been paid late twice in a row and some are talking about bailing, while I'm not saying you should jump ship tomorrow, you should definitely start looking for other work tomorrow.

It is easy to say move on when you are not at risk.Any joker can suggest that
as has been trumpeted .But dig and find out by any means necessary,how real
the situation is.I mean are you gonna trust anon people who aside from a chance
to extol their opinions endlessly,don't really give a rat's ass about you? Uh ripper

I am a Geos teacher. I had no problems with pay in August, it was on time. The Japanese staff were paid 1 week late in August. That is a fact! However, the Japanese staff did have a 1 week break (Obon) in August. Although it is not acceptable to pay late, I wonder if that had anything to do with it. I don't know how the Japanese staff got on in September.

My school received pay slips on time in September. However, on payday, the school received an email blaming the Post Office for screwing up deposits. It said that the deposits were being processed manually and would be completed by tomorrow. 5-6 hours later, the school received an email saying that all deposits had been completed on time. Because it had been processed manually, check your Post Office accounts and if there are any problems, "call the accounting department and we'll fix it immediately". I checked my Post Office account at a 7-11 ATM on the way home and the money was there in full exactly as stated on my pay slip, including extra payment (overtime, new signup and renewal commission, commuting expenses).

While some non-Geos employees might think it's fun to see the school go down, I hope that everything is okay and the mistakes are genuine, at least until I start my new job in April. After that I really don't care. :-)

Payday is on Friday. If Geos is having money problems, they have a week to come up with the cash. If they have any sense, they already know about these rumors and management will work 24hrs/day to find/transfer-in the cash to pay on time. No excuses this month. Because if it's late this Friday, it's definitely game over. And the news will spread like wildfire. Teachers already know about these rumors, any glitches will just confirm. And that will be the start of a mass walk-out. Hundreds of teachers quitting suddenly? Kiss your business goodbye.

The very least I expect when I go back after the weekend is an email from head office stating that they are aware of the rumors, but assuring everyone, including Japanese staff, that the salaries are ready and waiting to be paid 100% and on time. That would at least make me feel a little relieved, I'm willing to trust them for 1 week, and 1 week only. Otherwise it's going to be a long week of waiting.

This week will make or break Geos, mark my words.

It is easy to say move on when you are not at risk.Any joker can suggest that as has been trumpeted .But dig and find out by any means necessary,how real the situation is.I mean are you gonna trust anon people who aside from a chance to extol their opinions endlessly,don't really give a rat's ass about you? Uh ripper

Just trying to decipher what your meaning is here. You're basically saying I know jack shit about the situation at Geos and therefore shouldn't be listened to. Sorry, but I'm just re-stating facts that are already known, and offering sensible advice based on my experience of similar problems with other companies. That is, start looking for other work and prepare yourself, as signs are that the company could be in trouble.

The employees of GEOS should force management to an accounting; they have no right to keep the rank in file in the dark as to what is going on. Making excuses blaming the post office ofrcomputer glitches for late pay is complete bullshit. At NOVA, the foreign managers eventually forced to top brass to tell us if we were going to get paid or not.

Do not let them treat you like crap. Your dignity and sanity are worth more. Call GEOS management in large numbers and force them to tell you what is happening. I know you'll be making waves, but it wouldn't really put your job at risk; only a scumbag would fire you for asking questions about YOUR MONEY. Besides, it looks like the company is going down anyway.

I heard GEOS can stay afloat with 4 compartments flooded, but not 5, and would appear she has 5 compartments flooded. I think it is now about ascertaining what time she will founder, and not if she will or will not founder. Are there enough life boats? That's the real question.

It was a simple computer virus, called saruhashi/trojanhorse.exe. All has been rectified, and everyone can expect to be paid, excluding Japanese staff who showed disloyalty by objecting to not being paid.

J,J,J,Johnnie THE FIST

It would be great if you started The End of Geos thread.

Thanks

You're a mind-reader. I've considered starting another thread due to all of the comments, although I have yet to see any more substantial evidence of GEOS's impending doom. A similar thread already exists in the forums.

Shawn
Let's Japan.org::Blog

Cool. Well, the End Of Nova thread started 3 months before they wen't kaput, and it's only 12pm, which is the beginning of the day in Eikaiwa terms; still plenty of time left today for more bad news to come.

:)

Right, still lots of time for bad news. With Nova, we had METI punishing the company plus a ton of news coverage. With GEOS, we're still speculating.

Shawn
Let's Japan.org::Blog

You're right about any late payments this week being a bad sign.
However, GEOS can (luckily for them this month) use the old standby excuse that "the last day of the month falls
on a Saturday, so payments were delayed until the next business day,Monday Nov. 2."

I assume most companies and contracts state that in such cases, pay will be transferred
the previous Friday. But it certainly provides a reasonable-sounding convenient excuse that
gives HQ 72 hours to "find" more "cash". It's happened before.

If pay is delayed to only until Monday, what will people think?
Reasonable glitch?
Sign of doom?

Knowing how vicious rumors are and how they can hurt business, GEOS should be making every effort to pay on time this month (unless the management is insanely stupid) and make sure there aren't any glitches (assuming that was the problem). If the do not pay on time, anyone around there should be running for cover!

If they do go down, I certainly will not feel sorry for the students. How many big schools have to fail before the Japanese learn they have no protection from the government or anyone else and cannot trust these big schools with their money???

GEOS should start providing other services. Leather pants spanking lessons would be good start. Cute managers in leather shorts greeting students at the front door would be cute indeed.

You're right about any late payments this week being a bad sign.
However, GEOS can (luckily for them this month) use the old standby excuse that "the last day of the month falls on a Saturday, so payments were delayed until the next business day,Monday Nov. 2."

All companies I know of pay you the previous Friday. Delaying pay until Monday and using the weekend pay day excuse is a trick to try and make people think that things are OK.

If they haven't got the money by Friday, they're in trouble.

The employees of GEOS should force management to an accounting; they have no right to keep the rank in file in the dark as to what is going on.

This is how eikaiwa management usually operate, pretending that everything's fine and dandy when it clearly isn't, to the point where, if you do challenge them about it, they act completely stunned as if you're out of your mind and delusional.

I agree with you, you should challenge your manager about this - tell them that you've heard rumours about Japanese staff being paid late, and see how they react. If they admit it, ask them if they're sure foreign staff will be paid on Friday, and hold them to it.

You've got every right to ask these questions, seeing as your livelihood could be at stake.

Actually, managers and teachers are usually pretty close. Teachers usually know as much as managers.

After that, it's head office, then finally the president of the company. It isn't some extremely complex network. In fact, each school should have a map of the company with a list of who's-who as an excel file.

YES! Good idea. Let's start a deadpool.

Nov 16 for Dan

I will take .....December 6.

Who else?

I won't place my bets until after the weekend; if they don't get paid, it's a fast track.

Hi Gng,
I found out about this thraed from eslcfe.

I am a new tecaher, less than 100 hours in the classroom, just finished my CELTa. ESL industry I know little about. I am trying to save you GEOS teachers money and headaches.

But BUSINESS - tonnes of experience at 'C' level.

Every fiber of my being tells me GEOS is going down, maybe within the week, certainly before payday at the end of November.

The micro and macro economic signs are there, the anecdotal evidence is there, the emails, the hard sell to get monthly cashflow, the computer system going down, no access to email (so no one can warn anyone of the coming closure, share inter-office intel on who is doing what...), this ramping up the week before payday - all of these are classic signs of impending collapse.

One or two? Maybe a hoax. But in the aggregate? No - too many signs that match up with my knowledge and experience.

In the US I tell people this:

Being paid late is #1 on my killfile list. any business that cannot pay its employees on time is simply not a going concern, not a business.

On a basic functional level the organization is no longer a business, and 'all bets are off'. This happens to me in the US, I am spending all of my time bothering the owner or CEO or VP getting my pay. That is all I will be doing. When I get paid, the next thing I do is send out my resume, as the place I work at is no longer viable.

I used to be senior management. I signed checks. I have been the person that teachers here refer to with non-allowed words. I have insight into those employers who mistreat employers. This is business. It is ruthless. It is not 'nice' nor 'fair'. You have no rights. Thus you must leave when this occurs because by not paying they have broken the contract and one is no longer obligated to do one stitch of work. The only time this ever happened that was mildly acceptable was when an owner's wife froze all accounts during their divorce. On Monday the entire office went with the owner at 11am to get their pay. In cash.

Trust me, there is no excuse anywhere on this planet for this.

None. I don't care what anyone says.

If it happens, you get out within 15 minutes after getting the late pay. I am not kidding nor exaggerating. You leave and you get another job, because you no longer have one because you are working for free.

So my conclusion is that GEOS is going down, soon. Those still there need to make immediate (as in within the hour...) plans. They should assume that GEOS will close up shop at any second. Like today.

Get a new job today.

Now certainly things vary outside the US, and there are times pay packets are delayed for a few days. That is ok. But anything longer like the weeks or months in the links above - no. Not ok. Leave.

P.S. The English site is down:
http://www.geos-network.com/
http://www.geos-school.com/

Of course the first lines are:

Hi Gang,
I found out about this thread from eslcafe.

I am a new teacher...

and later on... " I used to be senior management"...

From above

Hi Gng,
I found out about this thraed from eslcfe.

I am a new tecaher, less than 100 hours in the classroom, just finished my CELTa. ESL industry I know little about.

Such a wonderful grasp of English. This guy must be working at a fine school, my guess is Nova.

A smear campaign on the one sensible post taking issue with what looks to be a stuck 'A' key.

Yes indeed, that confirms this rumor. Dismiss content, criticize the poster.

Look for GEOS management to make containment attempts on this thread.

What is this, Fisher Price My First Internet Rumors?

While I'm sure it would be a big laugh for you to see Geos go down asap, your post contains no evidence or believable theory, then you top it all off with a simple, "my conclusion is that GEOS is going down, soon." Get a new job! Right now! Don't even wait a minute! In fact, travel back in time and get a new job yesterday!... and so on. Please stop masturbating yourself into a froth at the thought of Geos going down, or come up with some facts.

Current employees are not going to start running for the hills no matter what you write, sorry. Maybe if pay turns out to be late this month, a few people will be getting edgy. The fact is that anyone working at Geos should be looking for a new job. Not because they are "going down soon"... but because eikaiwa is shit.

P.S. Geos has ALWAYS asked students to renew 6 months in advance. This is nothing new.

P.P.S. The geos-network.com and geos-school.com websites have been offline for more than a year. The main website is now geos.co.jp. Overseas schools may have their own website, such as geoskorea.co.kr

That post looks like a containment attempt to me.

Time will tell. Let us see what happens with pay this weekend.

The fact is that anyone working at Geos should be looking for a new job. Not because they are "going down soon"... but because eikaiwa is shit.

Could you be a bit clearer on why you think that Geos definitely isn't "going down soon"?

It seems fairly certain now that Japanese staff have been paid late twice in a row. That's more than a computer glitch, that's the beginnings of the pattern of several previous eikaiwa collapses, including Nova.

Certainly the evidence points to Geos not having enough money in its coffers on time to meet the entire payroll. That points to the possibility that Geos could "go down soon" - possibly in the next 2-3 months if it matches the pattern of previous collapses. Of course, it might not, but the signs are there.

GEOS pays retards like you just peanuts more than a fresh off the boat instructor to write your bullshit. When NOVA went down, I laughed hardest at moron middle "managers" such as yourself, who could not help themselves, and continued their "I am manager" fantasy on-line, blind to the reality so obvious to everyone else. I sit here, with a smile on my face, and my middle finger held up to arrogant twats like you. Die GEOS die !

J,J,J,Johnnie THE FIST

When GEOS does fold, I hope we won't be seeing posts about you people teaching for food in parks. If thats what it boils down to, you should instead suck cock in parks for cash. First of all it would be a lot more diginified. The fetish appeal of recieving a blow job from a gaijin would attrack a good market. Even if you're a guy, most Japanese are closet-homos and would pay top dollar for you to go down on them. Personally I would never do it in a million years, but then again I wouldn't work without pay or for food. You're a real desperate bunch of losers, who I thought could use this suggestion.

to be as reliable as possible about the information we post here. Humor is an important way to blow off steam, so I am not talking about those posts which are obviously meant in that way. I mean that when we post something as definite or a fact we should hedge a bit if we aren't sure. I only say that because of the speculation surrounding GEOS on this board. We simply have no sources of information we can rely upon so we need the testimonials of persons on the ground who have direct information and knowledge. I am not defending GEOS or Eikaiwa, I just know that there is no other source for info coming forward so those of you who do post, please think of yourselves as reporters. If you don't know something for sure, just say so.

I don't like the way people are exploited by the eikaiwa companies, and I don't like the way the students are ripped off. What I really don't like is the way education in Japan generally is so dismal and nothing about it puts the student or knowledge first. That's my angle.

"Fisher Price" analogy guy, you sound like a GEOS stooge. C'mon, 'fess up. I hope you are looking for another job, because your beloved company is in real trouble - read some of the Japanese blogs and that is what all the students/staff are saying. If GEOS goes down, after all the warning signs and experience of Nova - then you deserve to be royally screwed over, sir.

There is a deal of sense in the poster's comment. At present we are all into speculation and crystal-balling and it's not really helping the GEOS scene and it's stakeholders. And WE employees are an integral part of that GEOS stakeholding.

"There is a deal of sense in the poster's comment. At present we are all into speculation and crystal-balling and it's not really helping the GEOS scene and it's stakeholders. And WE employees are an integral part of that GEOS stakeholding."

HAHAHA! GEOS is is over. Stop kidding yourself. Be happy that your shitty exuse for a job is done and that you will be put out of your mysery. If you were smart, you'd set up shop in the park early.

What corporate bullshit manual did you pull “WE employees are an integral part of that GEOS stakeholding” from? You GEOS stooge you. The truth can be rephrased as follows: “Workers treated like casuals and sucked into believing they are part of an amazing corporate adventure, while being screwed at every single opportunity (the instructors) will be out of a job, if this crappy used-car sales company goes crunch-taboot, thank you”

J,J,J,Johnnie THE FIST

Seriously it won't. On the sweeps, I'd take early next year - Jan 21st.
Does anyone really think any company is safe at the moment?
I'm sure the other 'big' eikaiwas won't be far behind, and with more schools employing their own ALTs, it'll be the dispatch companies after that.
I for one am not going to mock the fall of GEOS - I'd hate it to happen to my company, and I can't say with 100% certainty that it won't.

Yo, Fisher Price guy here. Seriously, were the previous 10 comments all by the same moron? Yes, it's all one big containment attempt... ding ding, you win! Oh wait... I forgot, there's nothing to contain. I don't know what all those management and conspiracy-like accusations are about. Do you expect people, many of whom are living paycheck to paycheck, to believe some fairy story nonsense with no backing, then go jump infront of a speeding train?

The fact is that you haven't posted anything of substance, all speculation and bones with no meat. I don't know why you're assuming a "containment attempt" is underway... is it unthinkable that us Geos teachers are going to wait until Friday before doing some stupid shit that needn't have been done, at the cost of our unemployment money? I mean, if you want us all to jump ship, at least spend a few minutes coming up with a believable lie.

Geos has been hiring locally for years. I'd say that the average Geos teacher has been here for a few years... moreso than Nova at the time of their collapse, anyway. If Geos does go down, a lot of the teachers will be stating in Japan. Lots of people in it for the long-term.

Please continue with your little outburst, and as much fun as we're having with mental masturbation and the fall of corporations, don't expect anyone to take notice unless you have hard evidence.

Reminder: Friday is the day. Until then, you really have nothing.

How come da Japaneezie staff got no pay, isn't it?

J,J,J,Johnnie THE FIST

Hey Fisher-Price guy, see you in the park on Saturday. Bring your GEOS text books, some cans of the cheapest Happoshu, and a styrofoam cup to hold out for "donations". I'm currently teaching some homeless people in the park near Harajuku - they pay me in onigiri. So - don't crash our scene. Find your own students, brother.

I've just got back into the office after a management meeting here and I must say I am really upset at the tack young Johnie has taken in attempting to deal with my simple plea for what would be essentially a moment's pause, a breathing space as it were, for GEOS and its stakeholders. I did not expect Johnnie to descend into the language of the gutter-snipe and refer to me as a "stooge". I await by my phone, as I work on some curriculum development, for an apology. Johnnie, I thank you Sir in anticipation of that forthcoming courtesy.

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